#and if he wrote the story he wrote yoo joonghyuk

[ottovanvonveen]

Started reading ORV for the first time in a while and now I have a question that might be silly: Is Kim Dokja Yoo Joonghyuk?

[sarcasticmirage]

End of Novel Spoilers!

okay but can we talk about how important the 0th turn is for orv as a whole and how well its done...

So the first time we learn about the 0th turn it's a revelation, the horrible curse placed on yjh is not a curse at all but something that he chose, and that changes everything about what even yjh thinks about himself and his life.

and then we learn about tls123

and everything about yjh gets questioned again, like we've always questioned him: is he a character or is he a person? In orv's wonderfully recursive way, he only exists as a person bc he's a character that hsy wrote, but she could only write him as a character because of the person she knew. Who is he, where is the line between what hsy wrote him to be and who he is, does that even matter when his entire existence is only due to the oldest dream believing in him and him only believing in the version of him that would truly do and be everything that hsy wrote about him and more?

so getting back to the 0th turn, after learning about tls123, the 0th turn means so much more because it is truly yjh acting unequivocally of his own volition. Hsy never knew this part of the story so she couldn't write it, kdj never read this part of the story so he couldn't imagine it. The only reason it exists at all is because kdj goes intentionally as the oldest dream, to watch it. But in this moment the crux of yjh's tragedy, he is the author of his own story.

Just as with every climax of the yoohankim cycle, for just a moment fate and inevitability falls away; Kim Dokja could get off the train, Han Sooyoung could let Kim Dokja die, Yoo Joonghyuk could enjoy his happy ending. But they don't, in all these circumstances they know the consequences, and they choose each other anyways no matter how terrible that can be.

[briebysabs]

I find it fascinating how much orv makes Kim Dokja and Yoo Joonghyuk live by the constraints of “reader” and “protagonist”. Like KDJ wants to see the ending but at the same time, he doesn’t and wishes the story would never end. Not simply because he loves this story but because he needs it like oxygen; TWSA gave him a purpose. He was its reader for 13 years and you notice KDJ never talks of what he’ll do after the scenarios until towards the end. There’s even a moment between him and Sangah where he ponders what he would’ve done if the novel never became reality. If he read the ending, closed his phone, and went back to his apartment. He contemplates if he would’ve killed himself, KDJ knows at least the sad truth that he wouldn’t have befriended Sangah. He’d never reconciled with his mother, he was getting laid off from his job in two days. From 15 to 28 TWSA was the only lifeline he had so think about it. What becomes of a reader when the story is over? One can discern, based on SP and OD’s conclusion, it is to find a new story. But Kim Dokja couldn’t bear to do that. To continue on, he needed to be a reader.

Lee Sookyoung wrote her novel to gain income for KDJ’s living but also to paint herself as the murderer. To sink the lie into KDJ’s head that she was the one wielding the knife. If the traumatized 12-13 years old Kim Dokja knew he killed his father by accident and his mother took the fall for him, KDJ would’ve killed himself. No doubt the guilt would kill him so LSK felt as though she had to do this. So that KDJ’s self-hatred would be aimed at her instead. She made her son a reader of his own life. It temporarily saves him, gives him some time but KDJ is still given a label “a son of a murderer”. His trauma was publicized and hyperfocused on, he was bullied excessively for it. That book is one of the factors that led to his first suicide attempt. So it doomed him.

HSY wrote TWSA to keep Kim Dokja alive. A desperate attempt to save a kid with one foot prepared to leap off a cliff. What else could she have done? She created characters that KDJ could aim his self-hatred at: Kim Namwoon, Anna Croft, the constellations, Nirvana. She made him a reader of a character’s life. Made him inject YJH’s essence through his veins like an IV drip. Of course, Kim Dokja wants Yoo Joonghyuk to be happy in the end. That is the main driving force between so many decisions he makes but where does leave him? The whole reason he attached himself to TWSA was because this protagonist was suffering too. But he kept on living round by round so surely, they could live through their shitty lives together. If the TWSA ended on that train, KDJ would truly be alone and might’ve killed himself. So what happens, the novel comes to life and gives him even more time. But because of that, later down the line KDJ will make the choice to become the Oldest Dream, a watcher for all eternity. Yes, KimCom’s world needed someone to dream for it to exist but even if that wasn’t necessary ... .do you think KDJ would have enjoyed a happily ever after discovering he was behind all their pain and tribulations? The guilt might’ve killed him, we saw some of that with his visceral reaction to OD. So it doomed him.

Kim Dokja has to be a reader.

Yoo Joonghyuk was created for Kim Dokja. This isn’t a shipping statement, this is just a fact. I think it’s foolish to believe that is all there is to his character, he’s his own individual and his journey throughout orv is keeping his autonomy and gaining agency. Outside of what he’s written to behave like or KDJ’s will for him. But his life’s purpose is to keep Kim Dokja alive. HSY wrote each of his regressions to save this one person. And this is where the 0th turn YJH comes in because he makes the decision to regress. He was happy in his world, that is true but he couldn’t truly rest because something was missing. Everything was idle, every day was peaceful after saving the world. But while yeah, KDJ was reading his story as always…he wasn’t being the protagonist. YJH needs to do something, he needs a goal to accomplish so he gives himself one. He regresses for three reasons: To meet his sponsor aka his reader Kim Dokja. To find out his purpose, what he was made for….which is to save Kim Dokja. And finally to fulfill his sense of self which is being a protagonist. Reaching self actualization and being an active force in the world around him. So fast forward when Kim Dokja’s fragments are scattered across the universe and the scenarios are over, why is it surprising that YJH falls into depression? Why is it surprising that he goes to HSY in the museum and seriously asks her to end his life? What becomes of a protagonist when there’s no one to read his story? What use is there for him? So of course he’ll be the one to venture on this suicide mission to space, hopping from one worldline to the next, grasping onto the fragile hope that KDJ can come home.

Yoo Joonghyuk has to be a protagonist.

[mrynnn]

Kim Dokja and Han Sooyoung ship

When I read the novel I used to ship Joongdok and thought Han Sooyoung loved Kim Dokja by the end of the novel. Now that I’m rereading the novel to enjoy the side stories thoroughly, I don’t think Han Sooyoung’s love is unrequited. The signs are subtle but I think Kim Dokja is also at least slightly interested in her. after Kim Dokja and Han Sooyoung’s first parting (when HSY ran away leaving her avatar corpse) I could feel Dokja’s panic and sadness at that moment before he could think and Han Sooyoung’s expectations and thoughts on meeting him in the future (that was the first of it)

There was also that time when Kim Dokja was missing Han Sooyoung mid scenario soon after. The two were clearly interested with each other from the beginning and had some sort of tension. While Han Sooyoung’s feelings were comparatively more evident in the novel, we should agree that by the end that she did have some feelings for Dokja. As for Dokja, that dense bastard who didn’t even consider that his companions loved him and even when they showed clear affection towards him, he would get helpless as to how to respond to their affection, I doubt he actually caught on to Han Sooyoung’s feelings for him and actually started liking her without realising it himself, plus all the WOS coming to life and scenarios one after the another, I doubt he even had the time to care about who he has feelings for (and even if he did, his fourth wall or even his own personality would try to self rationalise to convince it to be something else)

The whole Kaizenix arc, the promise between Sooyoung and Dokja that Dokja wanted to read a 3000 chapter romance novel she wrote , the epilogue chapters, the 1863rd arc and literally every arc where both Kim Dokja and Han Sooyoung play a major part and actually spend time together they have some tension between them. Personally, I like their relationship a lot and I think it plays a major part in the story, way bigger then some might realise other like realise cause yk… a female character getting between the more popular male x male ship…

The romance aspect of the story is really vague (except Jung Heewon and Lee Hyunsung, Hades and Persephone and Yoo Joonghyuk and Lee Seolhwa, even 999 Uriel and 999 Yjh)

in general but you cannot turn a blind eye to their relationship.

At the end what do y’all think ??

[themissinghand]

WELCOME BACK AUTHOR!! WE MISS YOU!!!.Sorry I was too excited. Can I ask Kim Dokja x excited readers!. This happened after Kim Dokja became the Demon King and he came back and they both met again after a long time disappearing so she first met Kim.Com. With Kim Dokja, she is soft but with Yoo Joonghyuk, he and she's like a cat and a dog because she's still angry with Yoo Joonghyuk for punching and stabbing Dokja. (I want to punch Yoo Joonghyuk even once). She and the girls became friends especially Han Soyoung. Reader has an unexpected constellation too (make Kim Dokja surprised) because I want Reader to smile arrogantly and amused to Yoo Joonghyuk.❤️❤️❤️❤️

I believe Kim Dokja needs a full explanation to the reader because the reader misunderstood his relationship with Yoo Joonghyuk ( companion). she is like Kim Dokja, are you cheating on me?!!!.💀.

Bye-bye author,love you😘💕.

Omniscient Reader Viewpoint Back with a Bang: The Demon King Returns!

Summary: In which Kim Dokja was gone for a little longer than he expected, and now he has to deal with the aftermath. 

Or, chaos ensues, aka Dokja is a little jelly.

Pairing: Kim Dokja x F! Reader, Slight Yoo Joonghyuk x Reader

Note: Hey Anon, I wrote some similar (and emotional) stories with Kim Dokja x Reader with the whole demon king fiasco, so you can check those out! As such, I wanted to focus more on the comedy aspects since our dear squid was gone for a long time.

Also, this came out longer than I thought it would be.

Warning: SPOILERS ahead for manhwa readers. Possessive Dokja? Also swearing, pardon her french.

★・・・・・・★

Seeing your fist connect with the sunfish’s cheek and sending him into the sunset was not something Kim Dokja expected to see first after returning. 

“You son of a bitch! I’m going to send you back to the ocean if you say that again you sunfish!” Colourful language spewed out your lips as Han Sooyoung added more kindle to the flames, with Lee Jihye trying to hold you back (but failing as she was basically dragged by you across the sand). 

Meanwhile, Lee Hyunsung was trying to convince Yoo Joonghyuk to back down, but we all know that’s not happening. 

Yes, Kim Dokja had been gone for longer than he anticipated. 

The responsibilities and trials of being the Demon King had consumed him, keeping him away from the world and from you, his love and girlfriend. 

What should’ve been a tearful reunion and a mix of excitement and nervousness, turned to him trying to figure out what the heck is going on. 

[Constellation "Secretive Plotter" mentions that Incarnation “Kim Dokja” was literally a Ugly Squid] 

Kim Dokja resisted the urge to flip him off. 

Instead, with a deep breath, he called you out. 

“(Y/N)!” Your rage seemed to instantly evaporate before you had a look of wounded puppy. 

“Party pooper.” Han Sooyoung rolled her eyes, but nudged him towards you.

“Dokjaaaaaa!” Sprinting towards him, Dokja prepared for the impact, until he was completely knocked off his feet, and the two of you crashed on the ground. 

“You were gone for so long! I thought you might never come back," you exclaimed, your voice filled with emotion and buried your face into his shoulder.

Kim Dokja hugged you back, savoring the warmth of your embrace. "I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be away for so long." 

As they pulled apart after a while and you helped pull Dokja up, he noticed Yoo Joonghyuk standing nearby, watching them with his usual stoic expression. Before Kim Dokja could say anything, you turned to Yoo Joonghyuk and glared.

"And you! I still haven’t forgiven the fact that you punched and stabbed Dokja! Do you have any idea how worried I was?" you snapped, crossing your arms.

Yoo Joonghyuk raised an eyebrow, unfazed by your anger.

"It was necessary."

"It was not necessary!" you retorted, your eyes blazing. "If you ever do that again, I'll punch you myself!"

Kim Dokja chuckled, trying to diffuse the tension. "Let's not fight. We have more important things to discuss."

You huffed but nodded, turning your attention back to Kim Dokja. 

"You're right. We need to catch up."

As they moved to a more comfortable area, and everyone huddled around like little ducks, Dokja learned how much the world changed without him. 

Not only had everyone become leaders of various alliances and managed areas in Korea, you had formed close bonds with them in Kim Dokja's absence, especially with Han Sooyoung. 

“You know, when you ‘died’, she fought with that sunfish every day.” Han Sooyoung whispered as others shared their stories. Dokja shifted his eyes to see her reflecting on the past. 

Dokja could see that, after all, you didn’t want him to die. 

In fact, you were willing to betray the world for him. 

You stood in front of him and raised your sword against the Kim Company, until he was the one that sent you far away. 

And when you came running through the doors like a madwoman with bloodshot eyes, it was when Yoo Joonghyuk stabbed him with his sword. 

To see you so happy and relieved at his return made him feel so guilty, after all, he couldn’t forget the look of a mix of disbelief and betrayal in your eyes back then.

After all, he promised that he wouldn’t sacrifice himself again. 

"So, Demon King, huh?" Sooyoung whispered-teased, a playful glint in her eyes. "Quite the promotion."

Kim Dokja sighed, running a hand through his hair. 

"It's a long story. But I'm here now.”"

“You better. Otherwise, she’s gonna leave you for someone better.” 

“What?” Dokja suddenly said out loud, so loud that everyone looked at him. 

“Dokja?” You looked at him confused, but he returned the same puzzled look. 

Because you had a fist against the protagonist’s cheek, whereas he had a hand around your collar as if this was a normal interaction between cats and dogs. In fact, you two looked a little childish like this. 

“Not again.” Lee Jihye huffed, and indeed everyone seemed like it was the norm since no one took it seriously. 

“By the way, (Y/N) is the dog. If you didn’t know.” Thanks Han Sooyoung. 

[Constellation "Secretive Plotter" is amused by this situation]

“Anyways, did you know that (Y/N)-ssi has a pretty strong constellation?” Yoo Sangah being the one braincell of the group successfully changed the conversion. 

“Yea, you mean a sugar daddy-” Yoo Sangah covered her mouth with a menacing smile. 

Dokja never looked so confused.

You let go of the sunfish and the other did the same with a huff. Your eyes sparkled with mischief. 

"I do. Want to see?" You grinned as you rushed over to his side. 

“You know the constellation that you said that you didn’t know much about? But then follow you around every scenario and keep donating money to you?” 

Dokja blinks and racks his brain a little, which constellation was this? If it was a powerful one, then he should know them right? 

“Say hi~”

A beat of silence. 

“Huh? He’s usually pretty talkative…at least whenever I beat up the sunfish. And he donated a lot to Dokja before.” Said sunfish scoffs before pulling out his sword as if to intimidate someone. 

[Constellation “Abyssal Black Flame Dragon” is snickering and telling the “Sugar Daddy” to come out] 

[Constellation “Prisoner of the Golden Headband” is calling his upstairs neighbour to show up like a man]

[Constellations donated 1000 coins]

Dokja suddenly remembers (he only has 4 loyal followers after all), and suddenly felt a chill go down his spine.

[Constellation “Secretive Plotter” is amused by this situation]

[Constellation “Secretive Plotter” donated 5,000 coins]

“Damn! I told you! He always donates more than double the coins!” Yoo Sangah yeets the writer out. 

When it’s finally just the two of them left, Dokja spilled everything, from his plans and thoughts and reasonings, and finally to how he ended up here.

Somewhat frightened, Dokja didn’t dare to meet your eyes, until you pulled him into a hug. 

“I’m still mad, but next time, please, let me in.” With a nod, he understood he couldn’t leave you hanging like that again. 

“But…Dokja, that aside. Are you cheating on me?” Dokja froze in your hold that suddenly feels a little tight. 

“W-What do you mean?” 

“Are you and that sunfish-” Before you could even continue, he pulled back and stared right into your eyes with absolute seriousness. 

“No. Absolutely not.” 

“You sure? Uriel-” 

“Yes. I am absolutely sure we are not what you are thinking of.” 

“Are you sure?” 

“I would rather die-” Your pointed look frightened him as he quickly corrected himself, “-rather eat tomatoes than be with him.” 

You looked surprised for a moment, and he shivered in disgust at the thought of tomatoes. 

But you still had a look of disbelief in your eyes. At least until he pulled you in for a quick kiss. 

Until one turned to two, then three in quick succession and- 

“Okay! I get it!” You bonked him on the head and he almost whined. But he decides to hold back when he sees your blushing face and cute grumpy face. 

“Fine, I trust you. Just..I need you to trust me just like I trust you.” 

“I promise.” Kim Dokja indulged in your warmth as he hugged you tightly. 

“You’re suffocating me!” 

“Sorry!” He just missed you a little too much, and he knew he had to make up for the lost time.

“What the…didn’t you say that they fought every day?” 

In fact, you and Yoo Joonghyuk were fighting at this moment, where he could feel the waves of impact graze his skin. 

To even think that you were close to the protagonist’s skill and level is crazy.

“Mhmm.” Han Sooyoung scrolled on her phone and although her expression looked relaxed, she had a smirk on her lips.

As the evening progressed, Kim Dokja noticed something peculiar. Every time Yoo Joonghyuk interacted with you, there was a subtle softness in his usually stoic demeanor. It wasn't obvious, but it was there. 

Was he overthinking it? After all, the protagonist fell in love with Lee Seolwa in his previous regressions.

The more he thought of it, the more he felt himself going crazy. Rightfully so, especially when he defeated you in the fight (spar?) and as you spewed curses at him, he pulled you up so easily by one arm. 

If only you had seen Dokja’s expression slowly morph from a suspicious to burning glare, but you couldn’t as you were dusting yourself off and trying to clean your wounds. 

But that look. 

That fucking sunfish.

Before Dokja could run over and smack that sunfish, he dared send Dokja a look as if challenging him.  

“Told you.” Dokja couldn’t even retort back to Sooyoung as he was rushing towards you while calling your name, carefully hiding his annoyed expression. 

“(Y/N), let me help you.” You accepted his hand naturally with a smile and thanks. 

But before you leave the protagonist on his own, you toss him a healing elixir. 

“I’ll defeat you next time.” 

“That won’t be possible.” He said with a smirk, and that effectively pissed you off. 

“You sunfish piece of crap-” 

“(Y/N)!” Dokja had to pull you away (even though he didn’t want to), but before he left, he sent that sunfish a victorious look. 

Even so, Yoo Joonghyuk wasn't fazed, in fact, he simply smirked, the same nasty one when he tossed Dokja into the sea in their first meeting.

Dokja needed to punch him at least once. Just once.

Maybe twice...

Later, when you and Dokja found a quiet moment alone, Kim Dokja couldn't help but ask. 

"So, about Yoo Joonghyuk... Has he always been this, uh, attentive to you?"

You looked puzzled for a moment before realization dawned. 

"Has he? Nah, he’s just an asshole. I’m the only one who dares to fight him everyday, and he’s like your typical cold duke personality man. The one who says ‘Interesting’ at anything.” Kim Dokja chuckled though still feeling a little annoyed. 

“Don't worry. You will always be better than that sunfish. You're the one I love.” You announced confidently, making Dokja feel relieved and pulling you into a hug.

"Good. Because I couldn't handle losing you to him."

Little did you know, those spars you have with Yoo Joonghyuk everyday? Now turned into 2 vs 1, and let's just say, chaos is a new norm.

[orphiclovers]

The real question is did 1863rd Han Sooyoung leave Yoo Mia at Yoo Joonghyuk's door. Hear me out. The fact that she came with a note attached is so crucial. To Yoo Joonghyuk, it's tangible, physical evidence that his parents exist, alive and well and watching him somewhere out there. If that was his only proof, he would probably kept that slip of paper close, a most valued possession and lifeline, until the very moment he gave it to the private investigators as the only clue he had on their location.

But the thing is. His parents don't exist, but someone still wrote that note. Yoo Joonghyuk spends the Yoo Mia side story wondering about his 'creator' or 'god' and what if he's right? He does after all have uncanny intuition on the nature of his reality and almost breaks the fourth wall multiple times.

And it's not so out of the realm of possibility for tls123 to interfere with Yoo Joonghyuk's backstory pre-canon.

Remember that 1863 Han Sooyoung sent Asuka Ren, a fictional character, an email to buy the rights to her manhwa. In real life. She didn't write herself doing it in twsa, because Kim Dokja only finds this information out by asking Asuka Ren directly. (And then she immediately forgets everything related to her manhwa and tls123...creepy! And this happens in Yoo Mia side story too, when everyone else except YJH forgets Manager Y.S existed, plus Yoo Joonghyuk's whole hallucination thing. Fictional Characters and Real People interracting before it's time is too much for peoples minds to handle/not allowed by the universe?)

Anyway, she can at the very least communicate with her characters indirectly through notes/emails. I think she's capable of this because she is also out of this world, a ghost possesing young Han Sooyoung. And she is a 'character' by Kim Dokja's standards too.

So. She wrote that note and left Yoo Mia at Yoo Joonghyuk's door.

Because it is an event that needs to happen ('a canon event', literally) like Asuka Ren selling the rights to her manhwa, like tls123 starting to publish TWSA while Kim Dokja is still fifteen.

Her particular brand of time travel is very 'ensuring things happen when and exactly like they're supposed to' focused. It's like her one mission in the past. I think headcanoning to incorparate Yoo Mia side story like this doesn't detract from that but adds an interesting extra layer. And also I have an agenda.

[orviposition]

there isnt a single day that passes where i dont think about orv ch 751

lhh: i couldnt encourage him to live. i couldnt tell him to live a life that was already destined for failure when yoo joonghyuk was already so exhausted.

lhh gains enlightenment in this chapter and realizes that the reason why he transmigrated into the 41st round, why he has to absorb the kdj fragments, why kdj had to read the 41st round as well, is because 41yjh was the origin of both twsa and orv, and he needed to be saved, and lhh will not leave him walk this eternal path by himself. it's in this scene, as lhh writes the very first side story sentence that he understands why hsy wrote twsa just for kdj's survival

yjh: "if i live a little longer can i hear the story you wrote again?"

lhh: "yoo joonghyuk let's make a promise. never give up on life. as long as you don't give up on life, i will continue to write for you."

[unexpectedgeese]

I think it’s cool how ORV places so much importance of the reader/writer/protagonist roles but then also has everyone switching roles like it’s a game of goddamn musical chairs. Kim Dokja is a reader but he’s also writing his own story but he’s also the protagonist of that story but he’s also reading that story. Han Sooyoung is an author except for that one time she was the protagonist of the 1863 regression in YJh’s stead, and that time she was the reader of WoS (which she wrote). Yoo Joonghyuk is the protagonist until he’s a constellation, or until he reads all of KDJ’s story while floating in space, or until he writes the epilogue and it’s a whole thing.

The constellations are stories but they’re also the readers of stories. The incarnations are protagonists unless you remember that one time HSY said they were authors. The dokkaebi are editors, which is either authors two:electric boogaloo or its own completely distinct thing. It’s like… what if there were three ways to survive in a ruined world but all of them were actually the same way and that way was love. 

[nolthespoon]

It is 6 am I just ate a shitload of sugar and now I’m gonna ramble about orv. In orv everyone is what they are until the very end, kim dokja is and will always be a readers, as is such when (spoiler) we are fragments of him and are reading orv. orv isnt actually HIS viewpoint, but is han sooyoung’s and everyone else’s. They are telling the story of a man, who was a reader, and now you are a reader and will continue to make your story in your head. you are supposed to change the story, the end, as kdj did for twsa, you will change the story for orv, you are fated to be like kdj. (doesnt help that you technically are kdj, but still) A reader through and through. Han sooyoung had always been a writer, she wrote TWSA she wrote that one novel I cannot remember that had SSSSS and she wrote orv. No matter the round or worldline or anything, she had been writing, and even rewriting her own work. As always, she, the writer, would save you with her stories, would grace you with orv. Yoo joonghyuk was always a character, he existed within the story, and even when “broken out” of the story, he saved the oldest dream, the reader. He, the being created and influenced by Han sooyoung’s story creation, was the one saving kim dokja in her place. When he went through worldlines searching for kdj, he was a man sent by the writer to save the reader, so basically he was still a character. Aight I’m done with my ramblings, now tagging time.

[badass-queer-couples-battle]

Propaganda:

For Orufrey: "They're tragic wlw who have devoted their lives to each other since they were kids. They live together, they cook together, they're raising four girls together and they're doing the best they can. Olruggio would do anything for Qifrey if Qifrey would just Let Him 😭 but Qifrey is dead-set on protecting Olruggio and keeping him safe and in the dark no matter what it costs... i cant 😭..."

"Man I don't know they just have the vibes. They have toxic yuri energy but they are two grown men. They've known each other since their apprentice days and have stuck together ever since. Qifrey's main magic type was something he took up because Olruggio proposed that he learned to control the water he feared. They live together away from most of society with Qifrey's four apprentices, living the sapphic cottagecore (ateliercore???) dream. Qifrey, due to the fact that his eyesight is very much failing, something which is very problematic when it comes to witches, who need their eyesight more than most, is getting very desperate to get all he lost to the Brimhats, the witches who took one of his eyes and his memories, and Olruggio ends up noticing this pursuit and is implied to have done this more than once. Qifrey does not want Olruggio to know about both his failing eyesight and his goals, so he ends up completely wiping Olruggio's memory of those things, and laments that Olruggio is a kind person, and one who would most likely forgive him again, but also one who would try to save him, even when he didn't want to be saved. He also apologized right up until the moment Olruggio's memories of his secret were gone. In general I think chapter 40 is the somewhat toxic guy yuri chapter ever. I'm very tired so I do not know how to explain any of this, I just thought "wow Orufrey reminds me of this one poll I saw on Tumblr" and then spent three days straight hunting for your blog before completely forgetting my reasoning for Orufrey being yuri right before I submitted this."

For Joongdok: "Well first of all Yoo Joonghyuk has a whole arc that is transfem coded as hell (has a power/technique that can technically only be used by women but somehow he can also use it, for a time he even turns into a woman to wield it and it's. Actually just let me get the quote "The ines of the face had changed but it was clearly Yoo Joonghyuk. No, it was even more than before.") that just kinda happens,, and doesn't get brought up again but anyway. Second of all just look at them. You see the vision. Also a bonus observation is that these two often get shipped in a poly ship with Han Sooyoung and whenever I see people make a "regular couple, yaoi couple, yuri couple, I see no difference love is love" meme with them the combination of which pair among these three is which of the categories is always different"

Note: This submission also mentions Han Sooyoung, but I decided to count this polyship submission as guy yuri as well.

"They love each other, they pretend they don't care for each other but all their actions prove they care too much, if you remove someone from the trio then the resulting duo is extremely dysfunctional, as evidenced by more than a million words of canon. Is it technically guy yuri? Well, Han Sooyoung is a woman, but in a way she's one of the guys. Kim Dokja and Yoo Joonghyuk are men, but the text heavily hints that Yoo Joonghyuk is a trans woman who's just too busy and stressed out to transition yet, and Kim Dokja has just never thought about his own gender a single day in his life. They made the world for each other, they went back in time countless times and waged countless wars for each other, they wrote and read and lived a story, their story, for each other and that's what saved them all. The way Han Sooyoung writes Yoo Joonghyuk's story to save Kim Dokja and loses herself in the process, the way Yoo Joonghyuk voluntarily lives the story to the point of losing himself too and even forgetting why he originally decided to do it, the way Kim Dokja read Han Sooyoung's story which was Yoo Joonghyuk's life and that's how he found himself, they all took so much from each other and gave so much of themselves to each other, this is all very yuri."

"they're so yuri you have no idea. they have every staple of a yuri ship. unwavering devotion. waiting dozens or thousands of years for each other. dooming themselves and the world for each other. so much yearning. i also see them genderbent a lot (including inn canon in the case of yjh) and they're right both of these people are women. i genuinely can't even see them strictly as men at this point they're just yjh and kdj and they are yuri do you understand."

"they're so yuri. the abscense of yuri is the presence of yuri etc etc. these two guys are all ABOUT abscenses. also one of them is a part time woman. the other guy is a guy but like in the same way a square is a rectangle. anyway they're so guyyuri to me. bonus points also because they have a mutual girlfriend and when she's present they're girlyaoi but that's not relevant to this specifically"

[cum-villain]

Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint is a story. Everything that happens in the book is read, dreamt by the Oldest Dream. In his dream, everything that happens is influenced by his desires, what he wished would happen to his older self. When the <Star Stream> decrees the Korean incarnations are too strong and the strongest must be sacrificed, when the 73rd demon king must be chosen due to incarnations and the demon king alike dying and leaving no victor, it is the Oldest Dream who influences these scenarios. How much is luck, how much is Kim Dokja's careful plans, how much is the Oldest Dream? We can never know.

Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint is a story for that one reader. Everything included in the text was chosen for a reason, something that Han Sooyoung and Yoo Joonghyuk thought was important to bring back Kim Dokja. "All trauma is trauma" they wrote, so that the fragments with less dramatic but still shitty lives would understand that they deserve the love of Kim Dokja's Company just as much as he does. "Regression is never a good thing" they wrote, so that us fragments would never see it as a viable option. Is it Kim Dokja whose always unreliable, or did they obscure some things so we would only learn about those parts of him when we were ready to? We can never know.

[rusquared]

drabble idea so i can enjoy the act of sharing my thoughts without the time investment of writing shit down:

han sooyoung stopped writing. she couldn't hold a pen with the same careless ease anymore. not after everything that her own hands had caused. she can grade essays and she'll even bicker with dokja about the quality of the random books he picks up. but she won't write. she still flinches when joonghyuk brushes past her and is so real. she won't write.

joonghyuk pisses her off, as usual, about something or the other. in return she leaves a sticky note on top of an embarrassing gift for him. something petty and annoying. joonghyuk tries to ignore her. so she starts leaving them on his door. "yjh is a bastard" "supreme king, 33, unemployed" etc. they increase every week and yjh, for all his cleanliness, never removes them.

sometimes she gets risky. "yoo joonghyuk will do as i, han sooyoung, command". she pretends she didn't already do this to him in two separate worldlines. "today, the supreme king shall make tteokbokki for the black flames empress" "tonight, the supreme king shall not complain about the dishes being done" "this week, the supreme king will not say no to karaoke night"

something about referring to him in the 3rd person is funny, and she keeps it up. but she finds herself leaving sticky notes in her room, too. "what does it mean to be an actor?" "young girl. creates underground fight club" "what's a good magic system in a world based in space?"

han sooyoung never prided herself for creativity, or passion. she just knew how to write, and how to write well (ignoring the one time she wrote in the sloppiest, most verbose, and most passionate way possible). so these little notes don't mean anything to her. it's nothing of note. the view from the window just looked interesting this afternoon. "kim dokja still uses government name in online forums" "yoo sangah -> sadist? enjoys arguing with senators" notes. notes. notes. she's just making observations, is all.

without the avatar skill, and with the system barely there, her mind is quiet. no predictions being made. whatever plot comes to mind is no longer the most probable or best written.

one day, dokja bursts into her room to complain about something or the other. she's asleep at her desk. in front of her, the wall is a rainbow of colors. dokja can't peel his eyes away. what he had always reached for. what none of the other books, as good as they were, could give him. tls123's writing.

it's disjointed and mixed, multiple plot ideas picked up and dropped, no coherent order to it all. but he gathers as many as he can without her noticing, and tiptoes to his room. joonghyuk, watching from the doorway, says nothing. he places the tea he had prepared next to sooyoung's sleeping figure and covers her with a blanket.

when sooyoung slips into dokja's bedroom on another sleepless night permeated by what if he's not there?, she freezes. he has placed all the sticky notes he could gather on his own wall. lovingly arranged in order. some even having miniature sticky notes of their own with his thoughts and questions. the boy so hungry for her stories went ahead and pieced them together on his own. han sooyoung won't write again. but kim dokja will always be her #1 reader.

[justaravingwritingdesk]

hey, intrusive thoughts here.

1863rd han sooyoung (tls123) wrote the novel "three ways to survive in a ruined world", which kim dokja read, and secretive plotter is the yoo joonghyuk from said novel. kim dokja read "yoo joonghyuk's (secretive plotter's) story", true. but, does that automatically mean tls123 wrote "yoo joonghyuk's story"?

for reference, in-universe, han sooyoung also wrote "omniscient reader's viewpoint". they used everyone's memories of kim dokja to write the novel from his perspective. but does that really mean han sooyoung wrote "kim dokja's story"?

both twsa and orv are written from the main character's perspective. both novels are stories of their respective protagonists. but they are not the stories that make them entirely, merely pieces of them. twsa is the story of the secretive plotter. orv is the story of the 51% kim dokja.

both novels are written by han sooyoung, but neither are completely her own. she only channeled the perspectives; she did not own them. she may have told their stories as accurately as possible, but she never told them as completely as possible.

yoo joonghyuk never had much memories of his life before the apocalypse. that's partially resolved by the alternate 1863rd turn's events. yet the fact remains that there is a piece of his story that remained unwritten by han sooyoung. directed, yes, but unwritten all the same.

kim dokja, throughout orv, doesn't have that much memories of his pre-apocalypse life either. that's partially explained by the fourth wall blocking his memories and emotions. yet the fact remains that in all of orv, besides his memories of his mother and yoo sangah, he does not recall much about that part of his life. there is still a part of him that han sooyoung cannot write.

additionally, consider lee sookyung. she once turned kim dokja into a character of her story as part of a convoluted plan to save him. the production of orv is a repeat of that situation. despite her aid in its creation, how much did she reveal and how much did she keep hidden?

hmmm. some thoughts to ponder, even if they're a little over the place.

[thefakeking]

Also something I realized is even tho I've tried to have other favs I think even from how I read the story I've always been so attached to yoo joonghyuk from the start. It just feels so basic but like. In the actual story when it's revealed that 1863 Han Sooyoung wrote TWSA, it's supposed to show how it has always been a loop, that there's no clear start. But I think part of me took this and was like oh, Han Sooyoung wrote this story based on yoo joonghyuk. So he really is more than just a character because that one story was written about him rather than him being written into existence. I'm aware that this isn't necessarily true but isn't it so beautiful to think of yoo joonghyuk as more than just a character in orv.

[bytedykes]

the thing is that she made an entire person for kim dokja, the protagonist was made for him, specifically created just for that one reader, she created a universe for him and he read it so lovingly he made it real, and yoo joonghyuk was made for him and he went across worlds to bring him back, to save him, and han sooyoung kept writing, together they wrote him a second story, a second world, anyway what i'm saying is that they're the epitome of package deal do not separate, they are cosmically tied together, they love each other they created and destroyed worlds for each other. hey wait where are you going. come back im not finished talking about them i havent even gotten to the part where they're not only a package deal but a matching set, they each lost parts of themselves, each of them is only part of the person they were at the beginning of the story, wait come back, hey, wait,

[everyones-least-favorite-bard]

this is just a collection of highlights from my last Goofy Presentation Night in which i discussed (read: forced my audience to listen to) orv/yhk thoughts for two hundred and ten minutes

ill add more and rb/tag accordingly n stuff later bc its a lot of words to post and i am one very eepy boy

ON DOKSOO

In 1973, Ursula LeGuin wrote the short story The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas, which, if you’ve been around the English side of ORV fandom for long enough, might recognize due to jomeimei, our yhk scholar’s writings. If you don’t know it, the basic premise of the work is that there exists in some far-flung imagined world, a utopia called Omelas that is perfect in every way, save for the fact that its perfection is maintained via the constant suffering of a small child. (One can surmise from the title of course, that there are those who upon learning this, choose to leave the city and live elsewhere.)

One of the ways this intersects with ORV comes in the Epilogues and what happened to the Avatar of Han Sooyoung living in the 1863rd round. The Han Sooyoung of that round, if you recall, found post-suicide attempt Kim Dokja in the “real” world while looking for the author of Three Ways. Judging by her reactions, we see she has two epiphanies:

EPIPHANY ONE: There was no tls123. It was nearing the end of the year that Three Ways was published (in her and Kim Dokja’s memories), but the novel had not been published yet. The only people with knowledge of the original Three Ways timeline in the world were herself and the Dokkaebi King. If she didn't do anything, if she simply sat back and let the year finish out, she could leave WOS as an unpleasant memory and nothing more. She could save the world.

EPIPHANY TWO: Kim "Three Ways to Survive in a Ruined World saved my life" Dokja would not survive without that story.

She is faced with the same dilemma those who left Omelas were faced with: does she condemn the world to save this child, or does she save the world but condemn this child?

Let's leave that thought to simmer for a while.

Now the moral quandary that she’s dealing with is similar in structure to the Trolley Problem. (Which, if the reader of this has been living blissfully unexposed to 20th century philosophy and 21st century bastardizations of such, is a moral thought experiment in which a tram is headed down a track towards five people, with a lever allowing one to switch the tracks placed before the subject. However, the second track has one person on it who will also surely die from a direct hit by the trolley. Does the subject choose action or inaction?)

And this decision, which, according to other iterations of the Trolley Problem (in which the one person is someone the subject knows and cares about) is still not even in line with those theories or justifications.

ORV is utterly rife with these sort of fun moral messes. There are countless moments in which characters are faced with needs-of-the-many versus needs-of-the-few. Kim Dokja, for one, is perhaps most memorable for these given his propensity for (continuing with the Trolley Problem metaphor) throwing himself onto the track before the tram can reach the fork.

The events of the 1863rd round (and its aftereffects) are the most direct parallel of the experiment. 

As has been established, Han Sooyoung of the 1863rd round only knew Kim Dokja for a week, if even that, and yet she is fully willing to burn the world to make sure a life in which he might be happy is given to him. This decision is even further warped when we consider that the moment of her epiphany(s) is not the first time this Han Sooyoung was faced with the Trolley Problem.

We know that (based on the conversations she has with Kim Dokja) in the 1863rd round, Han Sooyoung was operating in a utilitarian space in order to seamlessly complete the scenarios. She chose to sacrifice Yoo Joonghyuk and put him in the position of a “villain” (thereby making him spiritually “dead” to all his loved ones and peers) in order to make sure she made a perfect run. And arguably she did–upon arriving in the 1863rd round Kim Dokja (loathe though he is to admit it) cannot find fault with how she has completed the scenarios thus far, and is even (if I remember correctly) somewhat jealous of her for being able to orchestrate such a clean run.

But instead of working with her to finish her run, to draw the period marking the end of the story she’s made, Kim Dokja’s desire to save Yoo Joonghyuk outweighs his desire to save the world, and he steps in and tears it into a comma. (Yes, I’m deliberately referencing the epilogues. No, I haven’t stopped thinking about the fucking period/comma scene. Don’t talk to me.) He switches the lever back to the track with five people because he refuses to sit back and allow the one man to die.

Now, based on what we see of Han Sooyoung in this round and her immediate reaction to Kim Dokja’s dickery, she would have continued operating in her ends-justify-the-means space. She obviously does to some extent as she reaches the end of the scenarios and wrangles the Dokkaebi King into granting her a wish. Upon arriving in the “real” world she is fully prepared to kill tls123 and save the world. But she doesn’t, she has the key to saving the world in her hands, she could so very easily keep Yoo Joonghyuk from suffering a thousand lives, she could save billions of people and live a wildly successful life as a famous webnovel author but! She! Doesn’t!

Why?

Imagine for a moment, if you will, sitting in a hospital room across from a fifteen year-old boy, sleeping or unconscious, fresh from a suicide attempt. Imagine for a moment, if you will, having met this fifteen year-old boy in another life when he was no longer quite so small or physically close to death, but was equally (if not more) close to it in spirit. Imagine for a moment, if you will, knowing the exact thing that will keep this boy if not happy, then at least surviving, for long enough that you might meet him again. Imagine for a moment, if you will, knowing that withholding that thing is certain death for this boy.

How could she condemn him then? How could she, after knowing the depth with which he will love and will fight to save those he wants to save, leave him here to die, alone?

We see therefore, that as a result of her interaction with Kim Dokja, that she is fundamentally changed in her worldview: she is no longer utilitarianally or unilaterally doling out unambiguous justice, sacrificing Yoo Joonghyuk for the world, but rather sacrificing the world now for Kim Dokja. 

It is by this that we know that written into the very condemnation of the world that Kim Dokja uses to justify his consistent self-flagellation is a story of love. Han Sooyoung does not walk away from Omelas--no, she reaches in and says to that lonely, suffering child, I will save you. I will love you as you are. The three ways to survive in a ruined world have always, always been love.